ANYBODY IN THE MOOD for one thing simply plain fairly in the mean time? One thing to look the seed catalogs for, selecting among the many many wildly colourful varieties, after which get able to sow for a consequence that’s all hopeful and vibrant? Properly me, too.
So after I noticed a photograph of a mattress of snapdragons the opposite day from final yr’s backyard of Joseph Tychonievich, I believed they is likely to be simply the factor to deliver us all some delight.
Joseph is a author, a plant breeder, and naturally a gardener and the creator of Josephgardens.com and a Substack publication by the identical identify. It was in his newest Substack submit that I noticed a photograph of his lavish show of snapdragons from final yr’s backyard (above) and referred to as him as much as ask for extra info. Joseph, who gardens in South Bend, Ind., enticed me additional and advised me tips on how to develop them, and which of them to search for particularly.
Learn alongside as you take heed to the Jan. 27, 2025 version of my public-radio present and podcast utilizing the participant under. You may subscribe to all future editions on Apple Podcasts (iTunes) or Spotify (and browse my archive of podcasts right here).
snapdragons galore, with joseph tychonievich
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Margaret Roach: Hello, Joseph. How are you? Brrr, huh?
Joseph Tychonievich: Yeah, I’m doing good. We’re lastly warming up and I’m doing good.
Margaret: [Laughter.] Yeah, proper, proper. Warming up into the kids, proper?
Joseph: [Laughter.] Proper. Heat for Northern Indiana. Yeah.
Margaret: So I discussed within the introduction that I referred to as you up and pestered you after seeing your current Substack. However the title of the newest submit there was “Gardening and the One-Physique Downside: Confronting the Actuality that I Can’t Do It All” [laughter] and it had a photograph of a mattress of snapdragons. However I simply should ask you earlier than we get onto these: The one-body drawback, I believe I might need it, too.
Joseph: Properly, I imply I haven’t learn “The Three-Physique Downside,” which is a science-fiction e book, and I suppose it was a film or one thing now. However the idea is realizing that the backyard that I dreamed of once I was an adolescent, and the gardens I’d been impressed by as an adolescent, have been usually made by wealthy individuals who had a workforce of gardeners to do the work for them [laughter].
Margaret: How handy.
Joseph: Sure. And kind of this concept, oh, I need to have 20 acres within the nation with double herbaceous borders and every thing and an orchard, and it’s like, oh, properly, I don’t have a employees of 5 individuals to do all of the work. I want to consider what I as one particular person, who additionally has to pay the payments and maintain my cats [laughter] and all these different issues, what’s actually a backyard that I can maintain and revel in slightly than getting caught up in imagining this overwhelming quantity of labor that I merely can’t do as one particular person.
Margaret: Properly, it made me snort, and I believed it was an excellent form of reminder for all of us, kind of interested by the yr forward, is to not restrict goals in a detrimental use of the phrase restrict, however to be practical, and it’ll be far more joyful.
Joseph: Yeah. So I really feel like I don’t need my backyard to grow to be a chore or one thing I have to do, or a weight, it needs to be one thing enjoyable and stress-free and pleasurable. And a few of that’s being practical about how a lot time it’s a must to give to it.
Margaret: So yeah, snapdragons: There was an image in that Substack submit they usually have been blooming mightily, these beautiful snapdragons [top of page photo and below], in what lots of people name “the hell strip,” the world between the sidewalk and the curb in entrance of your home the place normally it’s simply grass or no matter, or a avenue tree and grass. And it was like, whoa, snapdragons there? Wow [laughter].
Joseph: Yeah. So we moved in and we’ve very sandy soil right here, so it’s a really, very dry, lean soil. And that strip, they have been making an attempt to develop a protracted grass and just a little strip between the sidewalk and the street, which you would need to irrigate continuously. So I used to be like, I’m not doing that. Let’s determine choices for it.
And snapdragons are, I imply, we consider them as a summer time annual and develop them as summer time annuals, however wild snapdragons are from Spain and they’re actually from a reasonably dry local weather. So not like a number of annuals which can be actually thirsty and in the event that they get dry, they only wilt, snapdragons truly do rather well in kind of leaner, dry situations. So that they’re truly well-suited to that individual spot as a result of it’s very public, a lot of individuals strolling by, I desire a massive shot of shade there, however I don’t need to be out irrigating the sidewalk on a regular basis. So that they do rather well in there with out actually any supplemental irrigation or something, and provides me that massive pow of shade out the place I actually, actually need it.
Margaret: So there have been a number of them on this image. This was a stretch once more of them. And so after all my head began pondering, oh, go to the backyard heart… And I began instantly lamenting the times of when six-pack annuals [laughter]… You’re already laughing, you recognize what I’m going to say: Annuals got here in six-packs and it was a number of {dollars}, and you bought six little child crops that had been sown from seed, and also you’d say, “I’m going to get 10 of these six-packs and I’m going to place 60 of them out by the curb or no matter,” and it wasn’t that massive a deal. Now it’s like, oh, there’s $200 or no matter [laughter], as a result of they arrive in onesies a number of occasions in a 3-inch or no matter inch pot. It’s modified, the entire world of annuals.
And I believe, by the best way, of their native southwestern Europe, such as you stated in Spain and so forth, I believe they might be short-lived perennials or perennials or one thing.
Joseph: Yeah, they’re short-lived perennials. So yeah, and a few of them truly, there are some species you possibly can develop as perennials right here, and even when you have dry situations and deep snow cowl, which we do right here, even the usual “annual snapdragons” will overwinter typically, even in a Zone 6 winter, when you have good deep snow.
Margaret: Yeah, wacky. So particularly the opposite factor that I beloved about your submit, apart from the headline of the Substack submit “Gardening and the One-Physique Downside” and the image of this beautiful show out within the hell strip, was the concept that, ooh, if I did that from seed—I do know Joseph grows every thing from the seed—this may very well be a number of bang for the value of a packet of seeds, proper?
Joseph: Sure. You realize me, I’m a seed nut. I like rising stuff from seed, and a lot of that’s as a result of I don’t have a number of disposable revenue [laughter]. And so seed is so inexpensive if you recognize the strategies to do it, and particularly if you wish to do a giant mass planting, as a result of a packet of snapdragon seeds, you’re going to get actually tons of of seeds in that packet. So you possibly can just about sow out as many as you’ve gotten the area to develop on and do these kind of massive over-the-top shows. However such as you stated, in the event you go and purchase 4-inch pots on the nursery now, that can value such a fortune. And the opposite piece, apart from saving cash, can be it’s actually onerous to seek out tall snapdragons on the market at nurseries now. The large field shops and stuff simply don’t carry these old school, taller, actually good snapdragons. So it’s onerous to even purchase them in the event you even need it to.
Margaret: So is it Antirrhinum, is that proper? Antirrhinum majus?
Joseph: Sure.
Margaret: Sure. And normally I believe that’s one of many species, they usually’ve been hybridized, however that’s usually a giant a part of the genetics of even the hybrids. Sure. And so that you stated that a number of those now are shorter. That’s what they’re churning out en masse?
Joseph: Yeah, I imply it’s this entire factor. That is so bizarre, actually the massive field shops aren’t rising something there. Every part is being shipped in on a semi in bloom, and even a number of unbiased backyard facilities now aren’t rising stuff on website. And when a plant is twice as tall, it takes up twice as a lot area within the transport racks and it turns into actually costly. So there’s this big development to every thing that must be quick and compact. And snapdragons notably, the stems are just a little bit brittle. You don’t discover that within the backyard, however in transport they break. So that they’re considered one of these items that’s like, it’s not sensible for the trendy kind of provide chain of mass-market horticulture to develop tall snapdragons. So that they’ve bred these actually quick ones, that are cute, too, they usually have their place, however they don’t have this affect of the tall ones.
Margaret: So when do these bloom? When do I sow them? What season of the yr is that this that I’m going to get the present, and the way far again do I again as much as get going?
Joseph: That relies upon just a little bit on the place you might be. So in the event you’re within the Southeast about Zone 8, you need to sow them within the fall as a winter annual as you’d your pansies, as a result of they’re not very heat-tolerant. So for individuals in scorching climates, they’re good planted within the fall and let overwinter, they usually’ll provide you with a giant show within the spring.
I’m going to sow mine in all probability, properly, a few of them self-seed and a few of mine overwinter, however I’ll be sowing some. My final frost is in Could, and I’ll sow them about two months earlier than that to get able to plant them out. After which in the event you do dwell space with a comparatively cool local weather, they’ll maintain blooming proper by the summer time, particularly in the event you deadhead them or reduce them. So that they’ll kind of simply get higher and higher and higher as you undergo the summer time.
Margaret: O.Ok. Do you pinch them earlier than you set them out or something? Or do you set them out and also you allow them to form of develop?
Joseph: Yeah, I don’t pinch them. I do deadhead them, until I’m rising the double varieties, which you don’t should deadhead, which we are able to speak about, as a result of they received’t set seed naturally. However in the event you deadhead, so reduce them off because the flowers fade, you’ll get much more bloom. They’ll bloom rather a lot higher if they aren’t let to go to seed.
I at all times do, although, let my favourite ones set seed. In order that image I confirmed you, I first planted these the primary summer time we lived right here, which was like three years in the past. So these, a few of mine are my very own hybrids. I do all types of loopy stuff [laughter]. They’re just a little hardier than the standard ones, however a number of them have self-sowed. So in the event you don’t have a very deep mulch and let a few of them go to seed usually they’ll self-sow and simply maintain coming again yr after yr. So mine at the moment are kind of self-sustaining in that spot, which is good.
Margaret: That’s superb, in Indiana. Cool.
Joseph: Yeah.
Margaret: O.Ok. So that you again up about eight weeks or so from a set-out date that’s proper after the frost date, is that what you’re doing?
Joseph: Yeah. Or a few weeks earlier than; they will take a light-weight frost. They’re pretty cold-tolerant. Yeah. Notably that is the place I’m not an excellent seed starter, as a result of I’m not exact on timing [laughter]. And I believe across the starting of Could, I’ll plant them out. And it extra depends upon when I’ve time and once I acquired them sowed. However they’re form of versatile, as a result of in the event you plant them out just a little bit later, they’ll catch up. For those who get them forward early, they will take some frost; you possibly can plant them out early. So that they’re just a little extra versatile than one thing like a tomato, the place I really feel like if I plant it and it freezes, they’re lifeless, and if I wait too late, then they’re not going to ripen earlier than frost in my quick season. The snapdragons do properly within the cooler temperatures, so that they’ll bloom into the autumn even after the primary frost, and I can plant them out just a little earlier than the frost and be just a little bit looser with them on the timing.
Margaret: And are they tremendous seeds or massive seeds, or what am I going to get in that packet? You stated it may very well be a number of seeds.
Joseph: Little teeny, tiny seeds, poppy-seed dimension, which is-
Margaret: So cell packs, flats, what am I doing? Neighborhood pots, what am I going to do?
Joseph: I like neighborhood pots,
Margaret: In order that’s a number of seed in a single 4-inch pot?
Joseph: Quite a lot of seed in a single pot. So truly I’m doing, that is my go-to methodology for teeny seeds proper now, which is form of weird [laughter]. I’m utilizing a really high-tech system utilizing these disposable aluminum casserole trays yow will discover on the grocery retailer. They’re like aluminum pans that you’d take a lasagna to a potluck with, they usually include a plastic clear plastic lid that snaps excessive to guard them, in the event you’re taking them someplace.
Margaret: Like a dome.
Joseph: Yeah. They usually’re super-cheap, I can at all times run out and seize them, and I put simply vermiculite in that, moisten it. I can poke some holes for drainage and put that lid on, after which that retains it completely moist and humid, which is basically vital with these teeny seeds. If the soil floor dries out, they’re lifeless. There’s this fragile second after they’re actually small, so I exploit that rather a lot for my small seeds and it’s super-easy and it really works actually successfully so I don’t should be so on high of watering on a regular basis.
Margaret: It’s like just a little germination chamber.
Joseph: Sure.
Margaret: And so are you sowing them on high of the vermiculite, or are you overlaying them, or was there any depth factor or it doesn’t matter?
Joseph: I’m sowing them proper on the soil floor, and snapdragon seeds are a type of seeds that wants gentle to germinate, which is sort of a rule of thumb: Teeny-tiny seeds usually do. In the event that they’re buried too deep they usually’re darkish, they won’t germinate. So that you need to sow them proper on the soil floor, which can be why it’s vital to do some form of cowl to maintain the humidity excessive, as a result of there’s no soil on high of them to maintain that soil moist. So one thing excessive of the pot; even when it’s a pot, you possibly can put only a plastic wrap or one thing over a single pot simply to maintain that moist whereas they’re up and germinating. And as soon as they germinate, they’ll ship down roots and be just a little extra resilient. However there’s this little fragile second after they’re first popping out of these seeds.
Margaret: So on the most, I would mud just a little extra vermiculite on high or one thing, however not bury them.
Joseph: Yeah, don’t bury. Yeah, you would simply do a light-weight sprinkling excessive, however I simply sprinkle them proper over the floor and don’t cowl them in any respect.
Margaret: And so then they arrive up on this miniature lasagna pan [laughter], after which do, as we used to say, within the extra greenhouse world of English gardens, do you prick them out and pot them on, or what do you do? Do you permit them and simply transplant them from there into the backyard, or do you set pot them up into particular person containers first to allow them to get some dimension, or what?
Joseph: Yeah, I then pot them up into particular person containers, and I try this fairly early, virtually as quickly because the cotyledons, the primary seed leaves, have expanded earlier than they even put out their first true leaf.
Margaret: Oh, O.Ok.
Joseph: So I do it actually small and one of many causes I like sowing in vermiculite is as a result of it’s so light-weight, it’s very simple to tug them out and maintain the entire root system intact. So you possibly can simply actually seize the cotyledons and simply elevate them out they usually’ll pull simply up out of the soil with all of the roots. And so then I plant them out into their particular person pots.
I like that methodology as a result of it’s simpler to maintain that one tray moist. As soon as I’ve particular person pots, it’s a giant space to maintain moist whereas they’re germinating. After which I additionally don’t find yourself with empty pots in my flat, as a result of I can fastidiously put one seedling in every one. And particularly in the event you’re shopping for a few of these… I imply, snapdragons are usually a reasonably low-cost seed, however different seeds are typically form of costly, and also you don’t get a number of seeds to your cash, and I need to be sure that each seedling grows so I can then pot every seedling that germinates into its personal pot and never have any empty pots.
Margaret: O.Ok. So that you’re saying eight or so weeks in all probability. And that features the time within the vermiculite little cocoon [laughter] after which the potted-on vessel earlier than planting out, earlier than being transplanted into the backyard.
And also you’re not pinching or something, however is there anything? You stated, and also you stated that they have been on this lean soil out by the curb in your specific case. I imply, clearly they don’t should be in that form of a scenario. They may take it just a little totally different.
Joseph: They’ll develop in fairly wealthy soils they usually’ll be blissful in that. Yeah, I’m not likely very… I suppose the one different factor is I’m rising them beneath lights indoors whereas it’s under freezing, however I attempt to begin carrying them exterior into the solar virtually as quickly as I can. So even when we’ve just a little heat spell early on, I like to maneuver them exterior, as a result of it helps harden them off and get them used to the ultraviolet gentle and the extra intense daylight exterior. And since they do develop properly in cooler temperatures, as you recognize, within the spring, it’s like we’ve per week of chilly and per week of heat, and people weeks of heat, I’ll transfer the entire flats exterior into the sunny space to allow them to develop exterior as a lot as I can and solely deliver them again inside is when it’s turning chilly once more.
Margaret: It’s so attention-grabbing as a result of I put every thing on virtually like trays that you’d deliver in the event you have been serving meals, like bringing to the dinner desk or to placed on a TV tray or one thing. I put all my flats and pots and six-packs, I put them on trays like that, my flats, as a result of I carry them out and in. I do precisely what you simply stated. If the day is 40 levels or one thing, I deliver the stuff out. I don’t put it proper out within the full solar the primary minute, I put in a protected spot, in order that by the point mine are prepared or age-wise or no matter, they’re additionally hardened off already. They’ve been coming out and in.
Joseph: Yeah, yeah.
Margaret: Oh, attention-grabbing. Oh, I didn’t know you probably did that, too. [Laughter.] I believed that I used to be the one loopy particular person.
Joseph: Yeah, so I discovered particularly whenever you’re rising beneath lights, the lights don’t produce any ultraviolet gentle in any respect, which is the principle factor that causes the leaves to burn. And there are some compounds the leaves can develop as soon as they’re uncovered to ultraviolet gentle to guard them, however a few of it’s within the construction of the leaf because it grows. So a few of these older leaves that developed beneath the lights won’t ever actually develop that full capability to withstand full vibrant daylight. So I need to get them not less than just a little shot of precise direct daylight as early within the rising course of as potential, in order that they begin rising these leaves which can be morphologically in a position to deal with the daylight with out burning.
Margaret: So a number of the humorous issues I used to be studying about them after we talked on the cellphone the opposite day: They’re referred to as snapdragons, however they was referred to as calves’ snouts and lion’s mouths. They’d all these loopy names. They usually’re associated to foxgloves and to turtleheads to different issues that kind of have roughly that form of form of flower, proper? And bees like to get into flowers like that. And I believe usually hummingbirds could also be concerned about flowers of these shapes. It in all probability depends upon the colour, I don’t know.
Do you’ve gotten varieties that, I imply… I do know you’ve been hybridizing and so forth, however for these of us getting began, selection sources, any instructions that approach of issues to information us? I imply, I used to be after all already thumbing by the catalogs [laughter].
Joseph: Yeah, I imply, I’ve some favourite varieties. One factor I need to say about speaking in regards to the form of the flower, one factor that’s attention-grabbing, is that smaller bees can’t get into them, so that they should bodily pull the flower open. And honeybees aren’t large enough to get right into a snapdragon flower. So curiously, honeybees, which aren’t native in North America, will fully ignore snapdragons, however our native bumblebees and the carpenter bees which can be massive and powerful sufficient to tug these flowers open, love them. So truly, despite the fact that they’re not native right here, they’re an excellent meals supply for our native bees as a result of they don’t should compete with honeybees to attempt to entry them.
However favourite varieties, there’s one, a pair, that I actually love. One which I like is an previous selection. I’m unsure how previous, however ‘Black Prince’ is [above, from Select Seeds]. It’s a deep purple that does virtually veer into black. It’s a good looking darkish, deep purple flower. After which the foliage itself has a deep reddish shade to it as properly, which is basically, actually fairly.
Margaret: That’s so humorous you say that due to course, what do I’ve written down right here? One thing from Choose Seeds catalog, which is strictly what you simply described. That’s precisely what attracted my eye was like, whoa, that is actually dramatic.
Joseph: Yeah, it’s actually dramatic. It’s actually, actually cool. There was one other selection some time in the past that had darkish foliage, too, with totally different flower colours, nevertheless it was not vigorous in any respect. However this one, and I believe that is an previous heirloom selection that in all probability then does go by a number of totally different names, however the foliage is basically, actually stunning and it’s a extremely vigorous and appears nice, that actually intense shade.
Margaret: Every other goodies?
Joseph: One other one I like is ‘Night time and Day.’ And once more, there’s related varieties. That one, the tube of the flower is white after which I don’t know, will we name them the lips, are this intense purple. And the distinction is basically fairly dramatic as a result of it’s like a darkish purple and white they usually provide you with this actually unbelievable bicolor look to the flower.
Margaret: And I imply, I may do these in pots or a window field or I imply a lot of alternative ways, proper? I imply, it’s not like I’ve to place them within the floor.
Joseph: No. And there’s an enormous vary in heights, and that’s one thing you possibly can look, so in the event you have a look at like Choose Seeds and Johnny’s Chosen Seeds… Johnny’s largely could have a number of the actually tall ones, as a result of they actually cater to the cut-flower market. So you may get these ones which can be like 3 toes tall, that are actually stunning. Among the actually massive ones do want staking—nice reduce flowers and actually dramatic, that are in all probability higher within the floor. After which go all the way down to smaller ones that also have these good spikes, however have extra like 12 inches, 18 inches, that are in all probability higher for a container rising simply from the size of them.
Margaret: Wow. And there’s such a shade vary, and as you stated, there’s bicolors. There’s ones which can be kind of mottled in colours, edged in several shade. I imply, it’s just about one thing for everybody.
Joseph: The opposite attention-grabbing ones to search for are the double-flowered ones. So the [Madame] Butterfly sequence and Twinny sequence are each double-flowered ones which have additional layers of petals, which in the event you love the snapping of the flowers, in the event you love that traditional form, they don’t have that as a result of it’s form of an open type. However what’s attention-grabbing is the double kinds is not going to set seed until they’re hand-pollinated, so that you don’t should deadhead them to get the bloom as a lot. So in the event you hate deadheading, searching for both Butterfly or Twinny or a number of the different double-flowered ones, they normally received’t set seed themselves. And so you may get that good repeat bloom with out kind of the lifeless heading that goes together with it. [Above, from Swallowtail Gardens catalog, the peach version of the Twinny series.]
Margaret: They don’t have any perfume. Is there a brand new perfume?
Joseph: They do, and I don’t know I ought to have. So there’s a unique species, Antirrhinum siculum, which is among the wild species that has… it smells, it’s like a honey scent; it’s a extremely, actually fantastic scent. And sometimes you’ll scent them within the fashionable hybrids. However as with every thing, in a number of flowers, perfume, and the way lengthy the flowers final in a vase are inversely associated. So very aromatic flowers are likely to fade rapidly.
Margaret: Oh, attention-grabbing.
Joseph: And scentless ones will final rather a lot longer. And since snapdragons have been bred for a very long time for the florist commerce, a number of the perfume has been bred out of them, as a result of the aromatic ones don’t final properly in a vase. So typically in heirloom, like actually old school snapdragon varieties, you may get a few of that scent or a number of the different species, nevertheless it’s form of hit or miss. And a number of these kind of fashionable hybrids don’t have any perfume.
Margaret: Every other annuals, if I’m buying round—and once more, I may use a burst of shade [laughter] and delight on this mad, mad world we’re in in the mean time—anything that’s sown this fashion that you simply use your little lasagna foil pans with the domes and the vermiculite? I imply, is there anything that I do that approach?
Joseph: Yeah, so I exploit just about the very same methodology for my pansies that I begin within the fall or earlier spring; petunias are principally very related dimension seed and germination. And petunias, I really feel like we predict petunia appears so boring, however you may get into these old school petunias. Some have big flowers, and fragrances. There’s a number of, once more, range that’s misplaced in kind of the mass-market horticulture. Actually just about most of your annual seeds, you can begin this fashion.
After which I simply use a rule of thumb of if it’s a teeny seed, I sow it on the soil floor. And if it’s greater, I attempt to cowl it with a depth equal to the scale of the seed as a kind of rule of thumb. However yeah, just about, particularly in the event you’re wanting, I imply we each love Choose Seeds; it’s a nice catalog. A few of these off-the-beaten-path annuals, this kind of primary methodology will work with a number of various things to your backyard.
Margaret: Properly Joseph, I’m so glad to reconnect, and I’m so glad that you simply did that current Substack submit that actually grabbed me as a result of I believed I had the one-body drawback. So thanks, and I hope we’re going to be in contact usually. I need to see what different loopy belongings you’re going to do apart from planting snapdragons in your hell strip and so forth. I can’t wait.
Joseph: Properly, I might love that. It was so good speaking with you.
(Pictures from Joseph Tychonievich besides as famous.)
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MY WEEKLY public-radio present, rated a “top-5 backyard podcast” by “The Guardian” newspaper within the UK, started its fifteenth yr in March 2024. It’s produced at Robin Hood Radio, the smallest NPR station within the nation. Pay attention regionally within the Hudson Valley (NY)-Berkshires (MA)-Litchfield Hills (CT) Mondays at 8:30 AM Jap, rerun at 8:30 Saturdays. Or play the Jan. 27, 2025 present utilizing the participant close to the highest of this transcript. You may subscribe to all future editions on iTunes/Apple Podcasts or Spotify (and browse my archive of podcasts right here).